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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is the rated GPM requirements of the IP in the 1.6 NA? I'm looking to do a 2-tank system in the near future on the 80 Caddy and POSSIBLY the '84 HB I as well. Need a couple 3-way solenoid valves to make it work and my selection is currently set on 2 different sizes. One varies between 3-4gpm depending on exact model...the other 5-6 depending on model. The IP will have to draw diesel through 1 side of them...while the other I'll have a dedicated lift pump to assist since it would be pulling VO. Though heated it will still be a bit thicker.

I know the IP never uses everything it can pump...I just don't want to potentially...however unlikely...to have a fuel supply issue.

Haven't been able to find this specific bit of information. If can't find I suppose I COULD d/c the IP return line and route it into a jug with level markings and time it. IE hold half throttle for 15 seconds then multiply x4.
 

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Haven't been able to find this specific bit of information. If can't find I suppose I COULD d/c the IP return line and route it into a jug with level markings and time it. IE hold half throttle for 15 seconds then multiply x4.
If memory serves me at all I say that the IP is supposed to pump 1 liter of fluid @ 1000 RPM in 90 seconds. So not as high volume as you might think.

Do a double check as you said, but use a bigger container and run for the full minute at what might be your cruise speed. Then post those numbers just so we have them for the future reference.

I did a WVO system on my Rabbit years ago, and have since removed it as it was really only good for those 4 hour commutes I did on the weekend. Running around town does not heat the oil up enough by the time you get to the destination. Most trips are under 3 miles.

I had to learn how many miles I needed to drive to clear the WVO out of the pump and refill with diesel or it would not start for the return trip I needed to make when I was long hauling it. I think I had it down to just about 10 miles. With half of that in the city, rest on the highway.

I still have all the working bits and the tank. If diesel goes back up to 4.00 a gallon I might have to rethink not using it. Probably waste more diesel getting the oil warm then what I would use just making the trip on diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have no tach for engine speed reference...and attempting to judge it by ear by comparing with my 91 F250 7.3 NA which does...I might as well be trying to compare a 2-stroke revs to a 4. But I typically cruise somewhere around 1/4 throttle @ 55-ish mph. Will go by that throttle position or 1/2 then while timing the flow.

My commute is 42-43 miles 1-way for 4 out of the 5 day work week of which 90% is highway. Within the first 7mi I'd be able to switch over to the VO tank then switch back to diesel during the last 7. The system that will be going in place will let me purge the IP and intake line while back to running on diesel. Once I have a judge on the amount of time needed (to be determined during install) I can then change the return side form the VO back to diesel. I typically spend around $30/wk of which I do get a couple bucks change @ current prices which average 3.25//gal so even if I can make that $30 last 3 wks or more...I have enough oil stockpiled and awaiting processing last me almost 9 months.
 

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When I was running the WVO I didn't have a place to collect and process it. I didn't like the mess either. I found a guy who did have all that up and running and had a great filtered, dewatered product for 2 bucks a gallon. I would fill the 12 gallon tank with the first two cubbies and then buy four more. That would las about a month for me. I had a 425 mile round trip and that 12 gallon tank was just right for that distance.

The diesel tank would last for a longer time as I only ran it in town if I needed to and the first few miles for warm up. 10 gallons would go a long way. I used to laugh when I was filling up at the station and the attendant noticed I was writing down the particulars on my fill up. They would ask when was the last time I put fuel in that tank. I would look and point to the date and say something like 6 weeks ago. They would say, So you don't drive it much then do you.

I would point to the previous odometer reading and do a quick calcualtion and the total miles between fills would floor them. What car takes 10 gallons of fuel in six weeks time and gets 2400 miles distance out of it. I would kid them that I had it tuned for mileage not for performance. Can you tune mine? They would ask. Never let on that I ran WVO for the majority of those miles.
 

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I was poking around for information for a different reason and bumped into the source for the flow rate I originally stated. It is less than what I thought, not 1 liter but 625 mm at 1000 RPM for 90 seconds.

Sorry if that messed you up at all. 1000 RPM is just a tick over the 850 for Idle so don't race the engine for the test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
625mm? That the combined volume consumed by all cylinders during a minute? Or is it total flow over 1/2 L? Or how's that work? Am looking ideally at the total flow through the pump including the return. I know that 1L is supposed to be 1000 CC.
When I was pumping pure ATF through the Lemon Snowball's IP to flush it out it didn't take long to drink up a quart. This was all going in the input while the vast majority no doubt went to the output which was being sent to the tank.

Haven't had a chance yet to check for flow...hopefully will get to it tomorrow. At the recommendation of and older fellow who has been very helpful with advice on a 2-tank system, I'll be using Hydraforce 3-way spool valve units. No diaphragms...only rubberized parts are O-ring seals. His diesels use 6L//min units while the model I have an eye on has a stated max flow of 3L//min which should be more than enough. I only need to supply a meager 1.6L while he has a Mercedes 300SDL 6cyl and 3 other much larger that are all 366ci or more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
New look...can't seem to find the EDIT feature. By 625 mm...was that meant to be 625 CC? If that's the case then 3L//min max flow will be more than enough. Only POTENTIAL issue maybe in that the IP would have to draw the diesel through the valve orifices. The WVO side will have a dedicated electric pump to get the cooler fuel up to the heated filter then through to a heat exchanger then the switch valve before reaching the IP. Of course it will get warmed before hand.
 

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625mm? That the combined volume consumed by all cylinders during a minute? Or is it total flow over 1/2 L? Or how's that work? Am looking ideally at the total flow through the pump including the return. I know that 1L is supposed to be 1000 CC.
Yeah, that 625 mm should be 625 cc. Volume versus length. I can't find the edit button either. Maybe in dark mode they don't show up. I passed my cursor over some things in the bottom bar that is on this message and familiar things showed up.

Total flow is what is being pumped, injectors use some but most is used for cooling the IP and goes back to the tank. In a WVO system you generally want the warm oil to loop back to the front side of the pump, maybe back to the heated filter? That takes another valve on the outflow to do that. So you will actually be pulling or pushing less volume to the front of the pump.
I think the 3L valves will be overkill since you have a pump sending oil to the IP in the first place. I never needed one of those and I had the spare tank clear in the back of the car with about 10 ft of hose around or over hose setup. Wrapped it all in aluminum foil and those black foam plumbing pipe covers to keep the heat in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Of the valves I'm eyeing the 3L//min is about the smallest. I can get the diaphram types cheaper sure...might never have a problem...but the ones I'm looking to get have block-style bodies which will make mounting easier.

Will have 2 valves...1 for switching the supply while the other switches where the return goes. When the VO is being returned it will go back to the inlet side of the filter that way the only oil the IP sees is warmed. Will be purging the IP inlet of VO by changing the supply back to diesel & by using a clear return line for visual reference...figure out how many seconds it takes to clear the inlet line before changing the return back to the diesel tank. Unlikely to even have a heated tank since it rarely even freezes here. Still have an un-processed sample sitting in the fridge which is just above freezing and it still flows like oil in a quart. The electric lift pump back by the tank should be more than up to the task...it's one of the gerotor gear in a gear type that I've had forever. Thought the 3L//min would be sufficient but still going to do a test. If 625cc is all the IP draws then it should have no problem drawing through the switch valve.

This 2-tank setup is mostly intended for the 80 Caddy I've yet to get on the road...though it might go in the 84 2-door first. Hopefully if all goes to plan I'll be picking up a good used 21-gallon FRYBRID tank w/ heater for $100 this next Monday. Dimensions are just narrow enough it can be tucked in the back and just overhang the spare tire well...where the spare can be kept. Might have to put 1in spacers under it though so it doesn't actually rest on the tire.
 

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Years ago I came across this in the yard.... A WVO tank in the spare wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I've read where others do that. I recall mention that after someone put a 10 gallon tank there they were able to do "cool 1000 miles between fill ups". But always seemed like something of a misappropriation of space. No spare tire unless it was set on top...problematic for space for those who have a backseat that's always up. Mine is lacking one (seat) though the Lemon does have. I have a stainless(?) ~17-ish gallon 13" x 29" cylindrical tank that I've test fit in the back of the 84. It would go all the way back as far as can be gone. It clears the hatch...and with maybe an inch gap between it and the back floor it will allow removal of the spare...though it would have to be lived up and forward then over the tank if it were needed. Caddy's are a whole different story...tank in bed only problematic if have a shell.
The FRYBRID tank I'll be picking up would actually almost fit better (narrower) but would actually rest on the tire. But I'd like to have the bigger tank in the Caddy and the cylinder one's shape will work fine in the 84.
 

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I've read where others do that. I recall mention that after someone put a 10 gallon tank there they were able to do "cool 1000 miles between fill ups". But always seemed like something of a misappropriation of space. No spare tire unless it was set on top...problematic for space for those who have a backseat that's always up. ...
I never liked the idea of a spare tire out of that hole. Flying up in your back should you hit something solid or semi solid would cause life threatening injury. I have been in a collision and watched my tool box, about 70 lbs go sailing past me removing the headrest off the passengers seat on its way out the front windshield.

When I ran WVO I had a tank that a guy welded up with the internal pipes for heating the oil and bungs for both oil and water circulation. It fit tight across the back of the Rabbit and was below the height of the deck so no one could see it. Filling it to hold the 12 gallons was a bit of a problem if you didn't have a nice big funnel. Cubies are not the most sturdy container.

For the Caddy's I have seen where folks put a marine type filler pipe on their canopy and it goes into their tanks without a mess. Well maybe some dribbles down the outside but it is the best of the systems I have seen. Shorter to run under the truck with the hot water hoses too. Right up the shifter tunnel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Never did get around to checking the IP flow even though from the sound of it the valves I have in mind will be just fine. The kits are DEFINITELY spendy. Cheapest kits with them currently available are for Mercedes @ 1500+.Tire sitting loose can definitely be a hazard. Way around that is making it so it can be bolted down some more modern cars have their doughnuts secured in the trunk. I don't particularly look forward to routing the fuel lines under the rabbit for the back tank even if the 2nd one is only for diesel....and yes the Caddy will be WAY easier. Always be that nagging thought of "I hope I don't run over anything that might rip a hole in the heater line and make me dump all my coolant".
 

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But on a good note I am told that using WVO makes your car smell like French Fries as you are tooling down the road.
 

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IIRC I received an add back in early 81 on my Diesel purchase, that had a complete Turbo-upgrade, spare tire bladder included as well as a 16v head and manifolds intake as well as exhaust ( I assume now that it was the 16V head from a gasser..) that was all bolt on and about 5000 bucks total... but they said it would go from the 50hp to 95 or better (IIRC) and that on one tank and bladder it would go from coast to coast...before needing a re-fill. :) . Now the Bladder tank intrigued me.... I wish I could remember the companies name..but that was in 81, and it is almost 2020 now.
 

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RuralTowner, When I did my Rabbit I ran the hoses inside the car down the rear passenger fender, over the gas fill, then down to the floor. I was able to get them both inside the rocker panel and I had to drill two holes in the front to route them up behind the carpet and to the holes for the A/C that I didn't have. From there is was through the firewall and they went it two directions. I put a FPHE on a pedestal on the fire wall and had hot water from the engine going in there from take offs at the heater hoses.

That way I didn't worry about loosing coolant ever. I put a 12 volt pump at the exchanger and when I needed the oil to be warm I would route heated water to the back tank. In the summer I didn't need to do that and it would warm up the interior of the car and hold heat for a long time in the winter. Kind of like a 12 gallon oil space heater.

I ran the preheated oil to a heated filter and then to another FPHE just a foot away from the IP. I never had a problem with it gelling up on me.
One problem I did have is that all the extra connections added more places for air to enter the IP. I chased one leak forever and finally ended up replacing a fitting that I think was cracked.
As for smell of the exhaust Briano1234 it would depend on where the oil was sourced from. French fry oil is the worst of the bunch due to all the filtering you need to do to get the broken parts out of it. Cold settling and filtering work well for that. I got my stuff from a guy that collected strictly from some Asian restaurants, They used soy oil rather than peanut or corn, So my trip always made people think of rice dishes.
 

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You could use metal lines for the return if you don't mind loosing the heat in the process. I would use those rubber coated clamps and secure it tight to the body like the brake lines. We don't fret about them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
My return line on the VO side will only go as far as the filter inlet. Routing the tank heater line inside would definitely be safer...and IF a leak developed somewhere it would be easier to track down. ESPECIALLY when on the road. Suddenly the cab is filling with the sweetish smell of hot coolant? Start looking. The VO tank's pump will be as near the tank as practical.
Am piecing together all the other bits I'll need for the conversion as well. For the heated filter I can get a COMPLETE read to install//hookup unit from the UK (how much longer THAT lasts I wonder?) for about $100 (about 80 w/o shipping) for less than piecing it together from elsewhere. Missed out on an FPHE at a flea market that would've been just right had I recognized it for what it was at the time (this was over a month ago now).

Idea really is to have all this in the Caddy...but MIGHT install in the 84 first...which would presumably receive the more immediate benefit. Would just take alot more heater hose and fuel line. The Caddy would still be easier to install in...and it HAS no AC while the 84 still has all but the compressor...route plumbing through the AC holes. Or if I'm willing to make do w/o a heater...just route it down the center inside.
 

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Idea really is to have all this in the Caddy...but MIGHT install in the 84 first...which would presumably receive the more immediate benefit. Would just take alot more heater hose and fuel line. The Caddy would still be easier to install in...and it HAS no AC while the 84 still has all but the compressor...route plumbing through the AC holes. Or if I'm willing to make do w/o a heater...just route it down the center inside.
You would not have to do without a heater in either vehicle as you do have enough space to slip in a tee on either side of the heater core and run hose down the middle. At least I think you do.
 
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