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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, i have acquired a rabbit a week ago and have redone seals and parts that get old over time. when i got the engine back in the car i tried to turn the engine over with a breaker bar but at a certain point it would stop dead. I could hear metal on metal contact and i took off the cam so no valves were hitting and it would still stop. It sounded like it came from the transmission. it was in neutral and the guy i bought it from said the tranny was fine.

when the tranny was out of the car it could spin. i never did a full rotation with it though.
the engine would also spin when it was by itself.
 

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Diesel or gasser, Automatic or manual as these are both needed information prior to me spouting what I think the issues are.

Diesels if out of time, can get the pistons to lock on the valves as the valves protrude into the path of the pistons which is why they are called interference engines. Taking the belt off the cam and trying to turn the engine is going to require that you do the diesel dance to get the car in time first. Lobes of number 1 cam up lock in place, Trany at 0TDC and the ip is at 0TDC and pinned. The Dance is that you have to move the pistons, then the Cam then the crank then the cam...till you get the marks lined up.....takes a while.

Gassers are not interference engines so it shouldn't be a issue and then you have to look at the tranny type.

If it is an automatic there are plenty of things to cause this.
If this is a Manual the worst case is that it isn't in Neutral that you have issues with the linkages.

All very basic things but more information is needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry, Diesel manual 4 speed it is in neutral because in a gear it will turn the wheels until it hits something. I was wondering if it was the valves so i removed the cam and made sure they were up. one valve is higher than the rest, should they all be high or is the high one having a problem?
 

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The Valves will Hit the pistons as the pistons protrude into the valve chambers, so you have to have them in time....That is your issue the timing is off on the engine. You will need to rotate the crank to the bind then back it off,
Move the cam, then rotate the engine rotate the cam to the next bind, then rotate it....Once you get the Number one cyl valves lobes pointing up and the cam lock at the back of the cam can be installed, at the same time that you have the 0TDC at the finger on the tranny, then you can manually rotate the ip and pin it, reinstall the belt, keeping the slack at the tensioner... then tighten the tension so you have 1/2 twist to the belt, you will not move any mark....Once you are sure it is in time, then you will be able to rotate it 4 times with no binds. It is easier if you remove the glow plugs...Just don't force it... You could have a valve that floated or you bent it, that will never seat correctly and may be an issue but if you can rotate the engine at least 4 times, 16 for a complete test, with no binds then you should be ok.
 

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Briano, I think the advice you gave for the timing was fine but if you read his last couple of lines you see that he removed the trans and the engine turns just fine. So I think he needs to attend to the transmission. Get all the levers into the middle of the throws and see if you can turn the input shaft full rotation. You said you didn't do that so try it. You may just have had it in gear and didn't know it. Or you thought you had it in Neutral and the shift mechanism was wonko and that was the problem.

I first thought as I read the OP that it was the classic diesel timing is off a bit and he is getting valve interference. But by the end of the read I was thinking differently.

Let us know what the transmission does if you fool with it.
 

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"
I first thought as I read the OP that it was the classic diesel timing is off a bit and he is getting valve interference. But by the end of the read I was thinking differently.

Let us know what the transmission does if you fool with it.

"
That is the same that I thought as it is always the last thing you did.... But then I re-read it and he has taken off the cam......

"certain point it would stop dead. I could hear metal on metal contact and i took off the cam so no valves were hitting and it would still stop. It sounded like it came from the transmission. it was in neutral and the guy i bought it from said the tranny was fine."

This is where I think he has created a new issue.....the diesel timing dance.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
the cam is off and the valves are up. But all the valves are the same height except one. the one closest to the tranny is higher. i might have to pull it apart and test the tranny and engine separately.
Thank you for the input!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have been trying to get the engine and tranny out and it has not been going well at all. i have a 25 dollar jack and wood for jack stands and cant get the engine out. I would like to know how to check the valve height (how high they should or shouldn't be) or how to check if the valve stem seal or seat is bad and causing them too stick out.
 

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I think that the one valve stem sticking up farther than the rest is a broken valve that is somewhat holding together and causing the valve to be hitting the top of the cylinder head and no amount of dancing is going to get you a trophy. I would grab a pair of pliers and try slowly turning and pulling up on the stem and see if it comes out.
I can't imagine that one valve was left unground enough to see the height difference unless someone just forgot to do it.

Are all the valve shims about the same thickness or is one very thin?
Grasping at ideas here. Hope it helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So i tried to grab the valve with a pliers and i couldn't actually grab it. i hit it with a hammer and viola the top part popped off and broke in 2. the seal was very sticky so i am now wondering if it had been weak since i put the head on and it didn't look like it. what tools do you need to replace valves. And is there a good or bad way to put them on. I will order parts today so i can get this wabbit going as soon as possible.
 

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Well now you have gone and done it eh?

Time to pull the head and replace the valve. INTAKE or EXAUST? you said near the tranny but I figured it was just the last cylinder, #4.
There are normally little tiny pieces of metal that are tapered that go around the top of the valve and hold it in place against the spring tension. With the top part broken off I would think you have that in hand and the rest of the valve is now in the cylinder chamber. No rotating the engine now or risk damage to the piston.

You will pull the head and clean up the valve guides inside with some solvent of some sort. Then you can insert the new valve and replace the keepers on top and drop the cup over the top. The little shim may need to change now in order to get the proper clearance between the cam lobes and the top of the shim. Different for Ex or In. Got the measurements or do you need that? Not sure if you have a Bentley manual or not. That is where it is listed, or written down.

I thought about you pulling on the valvestem and figured it was going to cost you a head gasket to fix this. You might ask here if anyone has a spare valve they would be willing to send you. They are not expensive but you may need to tell folks how many indents there were on the old one to get the proper keepers. Memory says there were some with two and some with three.

Keep working on it. Sounds better than a trans problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes it was the #4 cylinder. So i did end up pulling the head which is not what i wanted to do but it had to happen. it has the 3 ribbed keepers. I ordered new valves for all the exhaust ports because i had the head off. do you think it is smart to replace them all or just the one that is broken. i have new valve seals that came with a seal kit but are very hard to get off and back on. I have a Bentley manual i can look stuff up in. just going to go and try make a tool to install new valves.
 

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I would say that I would have pulled the head and looked all the valves over. If I saw issues with bent, broken or poor sealing against the head I would have ordered new ones as you did.
Getting those crazy spring loaded seals off the top of the guides is a bear. They make a special set of pliers that goes around them and allows you to pull them off better. It has been forever since I had to do those and I can't think of how I got them off easily. Maybe since I was replacing them it didn't matter to me and I just destroyed them in the removal process.

You may be able to get a stiff wire with a J bent end underneath them and get them to loosen up a bit at a time and get them off that way. Good luck on those.
 

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Read my signature line, and well, ship happens.....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So i got the car back together and the wiring works for the starter, glow plugs and fuel solenoid. at first they did not but after i followed briano1234's advice i repaired 4 grounds but not sure how many more there is. I have the engine all in time(#1 cylinder lobes pointing up) crank in time and inj pump in time but when i go to turn it it will bind up but it doesn't make a clunk. instead it feels like a very sticky seal. the cam on its own doesn't like to move when torqued down and even when not torqued all the way down it doesn't want to turn. I was thinking maybe too much lube on the cam bearings but i really don't know.
 

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Does the head have a warp to it? Maybe it will need to be line bored to get the cam to turn freely when under proper torque. It should not be sticking after disassembly. Oh, did you put all the cam caps on the same place as you found them. I think they have numbers on them too. Just a thought, might be causing the binding.
 
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