Volkswagen Owners Club Forum banner

21 - 40 of 112 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,419 Posts
The Cam should spin freely with no belt with the towers torqued. A Cam that is installed without the cap torqued under belt tension can snap the cam in two.

When in time, the engine is tough to spin as you are compressing the thing to 300+ psi, to gauge if there isn't any bind easily you may want to remove the glow plugs.

Timing.
Finger on the tranny at 0TDC, Cam lobes on number 1 pointing up and the lock slot at the rear of the cam is parallel to the head plane so the lock can easily go into place.
The IP is at 0TDC and pinned.
Tighten the tensioner so that there isn't more than a 1/2 twist to the Cam Belt between the ip and the cam. When tensioning you have to make sure that all timing marks haven't moved.

Then rotate the engine about 4 times checking that the marks all align and there are no Physical BINDS All Valves need to open and close.
Yes it may seem to be tight and Binding at the top of the compression stroke on each cylinder, It will bleed off pressure, but it is way easier to remove the GP's.....

Grounds, there are the 2 main and about 20 secondary, most are tied to the Star Connector behind the dash, and or at the rear chassis bumper bracket bolts.

Cleaning any solid brown wires connection to Ground is only going to help you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
The cam is binding up because i can turn the crank and the cam will stay in the same place as much as the timing belt will flex. Like the timing belt has a little bit of stretch in it. what is line boring? is it to make all the caps/cam holders in a line? and is there anyway to check/do this without a machine shop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
so i removed the cam because it is so hard to turn and sanded the bearing on the cam and reinstalled it and it turned easier was still quite difficult. is it wise to sand it more or will that have a bad side affect. also the caps are very much in line with the bottom ones with a teeny tiny bit of difference barely visible to the eye.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,419 Posts
Caps wear in to the bearing races on the cam, and well getting the caps back on to where they came off is paramount to have no issues, that is why you usually number them 1-4....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
well i am not sure why but the cam requires 42 ft lbs of torque to turn. Maybe if someone has time or knows the specs of how much it should take to turn the cam that would be awesome. If the caps wear to the races on the cam then should i rotate the cam a lot? when i tried to turn the cam before i took it apart it was very hard to turn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
it is now all back together and will turn over fine but i have been trying to time the injection pump and i have a dial indicator tool from parts place and it is made specifically for this engine. the manual says to have about 3 mm of preload. if i put my timing tool all the way in it only has 1.4 mm of preload. am i doing something wrong or it it the dials fault.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,419 Posts
You may have the ip 180 out, but I haven't used the dial gauge in years so I am a little rusty. You have slackened all the bolts and if you rotate the pump a wee bit do you get a different preload?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
did the gauge come with a collar that goes on the back of the injection pump head and then you put the gauge into the collar and lock it in tight? That is how mine works and in order for me to get any reading about the timing cam distance I needed to make a short piece of rod that goes inside the shaft of the IP and then the gauge touches it. I generally only use a reading of 2 for preload. As long as you can still get the gauge to zero out when you turn the engine backwards you are OK.

As you bring it back forward and the pointer aligns on the flywheel you read the gauge and most of the time you will not want to be at 1.4, more like 1.0.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
there is no adjustments in the stupid timing dial, the piece that screws into the pump. i ended up cutting about 3 mm off the top and got it to work. i got the engine to start but it died after like 1 minute and wouldn't fire back up. i replaced the pump because it was leaking and now it really doesn't want to start. i have it timed to .90 and it is all primed and fuel is getting to 3 injectors. one of the injectors doesn't get fuel. i can not seem to get it to even think about kicking over now. i have tested the gps and they work. there is also voltage getting to them. it is a heated garage and i cant think of what i am missing. tomorrow i will check the timing to make sure it is spot on. It will also vibrate a little more with the cold start cable pulled. Does that mean it wants more timing?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,419 Posts
If you changed the pump, you may have to take the time to prime it.... I had an issue that I had to loosen the Standoffs on the back of the ip and bleed them, then the lined to the injectors, before I could get fuel out to the injectors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
i removed the return line from the top of the IP and filled it full. but when the car wouldn't start i checked if it was full and the level had gone down even though i have fuel hooked up to the IP. there is fuel getting to the injectors but it still wont turn over. i took the injectors apart and cleaned them(there was lots of crud in them) and reinstalled them but don't have a machine to test the spray pattern. i have tried the timing from as low as .80mm all the way to 1 mm with cold start cable pushed in. i used starting fluid and it will kick over but not for long. I am not sure how to adjust the mixture though because the mixture screw was pulled out before i got it. i am hoping mixture is my last problem but is there a way to make the mixture back to stock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Well quite the head scratcher now isn't it? You have now swapped out the IP for another and have fuel going to three of the four injectors. Those injectors were taken apart and cleaned but you are still not sure they work well as you can't test them. You have tried different timing settings and starting fluid but it still won't start or run well for long. You verified voltage to the GP's and think they are working. Maybe.

I am not sure what you are referring to as the "MIXTURE Screw", is that the one on the back of the pump that actually controls the amount of fuel allowed into the final high side of the pump?

So here is what I think you have going. Fuel is getting to where it needs to go but the GP's are not working. Pull them an be sure when you put 12 volts across them they glow red. Hold with pliers when testing. If indeed you have all plugs glowing then you have a combination of how much fuel is getting to the injectors and if the timing is ON or OFF.

When you put the second pump on are you sure you didn't get the keyway pointed away from the #1 cylinder? It should be aimed at the 10 o'clock position.
Are you sure fuel is coming into the IP? IF it isn't, and you could be sure about that by putting a section of clear line on the front side of the IP then you are getting air into your system and it surely will not run right if that is happening.

So verify GP's working, fuel getting to the pump, the timing and the position of the IP at TDC compared to #1 cylinder. Honestly you have swapped around so many variables in your quest to make it behave it might take some time to sort it all out.
Keep plugging along on it, IF it ran once it will continue to run again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
So i took out gps and tested them and none of them work, I.E. i can touch them and they are slightly warm. buying new gps and the clutch wont work so checked the throwaway bearing and it was wallowed out so going to buy one of those. Also when i took the plate off the back no oil came out so i guess someone drained it and didn't put more oil in it. You are supposed to run MTL oil to the top of the fill threads witch are on the shifter in the tranny right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
in my car the glow plug light will go out after about a minute or 2. when i had one glow plug out before i tested them stupidly and held it and it fried my finger in a second. now they don't work so do you think the relay is the long wait one and the glow plugs weren't? if so do i have to buy a new relay? some of the GPs were broken on the tip but one wasn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Ah ha, I knew your GPs were toasted~~~ Or at least that was my best guess. So to order the long delay or short ones is the question. I would be inclined to go with the long delay. If your light stays on that long I am suspect of the relay working correctly but it also makes me think it is for the 20 second not 7 second GP/s.

I would also venture a guess that the reason you got burned by the one plug is that it momentarily made contact and that is all it takes for them to get that hot. If you can't keep it lit and glowing it isn't working right so toss it away and buy some that work.

As for oil in the trans you do need it to make it work. The plug to drain it is on the bottom and it could be a bugger to get a 17 mm hex head in there and get it to move. I soaked mine for days before I finally broke it loose with a 3 foot cheater bar. The fill plug is on the side in back or just near that cap where the throw out bearing is going to go. So folks get a new cap as well, if you didn't tear yours up badly it might go back in and do just fine sealing against the oil inside. If you pull the speedometer cable out you can fill the trans from there too. Getting the right amount for the 5 spd trans is a bit tricky.

You kind of have to elevate the drivers side and the engine to make sure you get enough in to lube the top gear.

Keep working on it, keep posting too. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
i purchased glow plugs from dieselrx because they were made in america but i don't know the specs for them. they are supposed to fit my engine. is there a way to tell if you hot wire them. i would guess that the 7 sec ones would lite up really fast and if they were made to be a longer lit one they would take longer to get red hot. could i change out the relay or is it better to cancel the order and get the proper ones.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,419 Posts
From the 4crawler site. VW Diesel - Glow Plug System
  • Slow Glow: (wait-forever)
    • Plugs:
      • VW p/n:
      • Bosch p/n:
      • Current draw: 9A/plug, silver colored terminal
    • Relay:
      • VW p/n: 321-911-621
      • Bosch p/n:
  • Fast Glow: ( 7 Second)
    • Plugs:
      • VW p/n:
      • Bosch p/n:
      • Current draw: 12A/plug, brass colored terminal
    • Relay:
      • VW p/n: 171-911-261A-E
      • Bosch p/n: 0.281.003.099
If you look at Chris's pages, they
 
21 - 40 of 112 Posts
Top