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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Side note. LEARN TO READ YOUR GAUGE PROPER! This guy is using one identical to mine. Blasted fine print. For some reason I was misinterpreting mine as SAE not Metric. 39 marks is not ~1mm. So my existing setup should be okay. Just need to redo the pump timing (again). Probably why it "smooths" out if given extra throttle as it advances injection (but still nowhere near where it should be).

 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Pump in the truck is driving me nuts. Reset to 1mm...best I can get it to do is run for a brief moment then die. If I was a hardcore masochist I'd have pulled very single hair out of my head already. At this rate with all the fuel being dumped in the cylinders to get it to try and run probably won't be doing the new rings any good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Finding more material on these pumps however. More I look at them the more I think I'm looking at any of the 5 total plungers not cooperating.
 

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Do you have an electric lift pump? All it takes is a bit of a slight air leak for these pumps to stop pulling from the gas tank
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
Been doing it even w/ the lift pump for the bed tank. I let the lift pump run & it will eventually fill the IP enough for fuel to begin coming through the return. At this stage I think it might be the solenoid not being consistent even though it clicks when power is applied. Thought about pulling the thing & removing the plunger then trying it...then realized if I did that the only way to shut down would be to starve it for air or stall it out w/ clutch. SOMEWHERE I have a brand new solenoid...I think...otherwise it's trying one of the other used I have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Haven't been able to spend much time on the thing but I think I found my problem. There are 2 painted marks on the flywheel...I was using the older of the 2 (not 1 I made) instead of the brighter paint mark. Our flywheels get patina so its hard to make out marks hence using paint. Got to wondering that IT SHOULD be firing...everything is getting set where it should be. A problem I was running into was when lining up the marks the IP still could not be pinned...it would have to be turned further. WELL finally used the camera probe I originally got to help find a speedo gear I dropped down a trans. Set it back up to point at the brighter paint mark...to the left of the screen I see a B...to the right I see an A...in the middle a 0 though the pain fills it in to look more like a C. Just prior to this I went ahead and counted all the visible marks of which there is 16. 10 to the left of bright white & 5 to the right.

The prognosis? I'VE BEEN SETTING THE IP W/ THE FLYWHEEL @ 10 ATDC! With the CORRECT mark lined up the pump is 3-4 teeth off...fuel is being injected way too late. Had forgotten that the bright mark was one I PUT(!) on it in the 1st place...clutch assy came off the motor that was mated to the stuck trans since it was low miles. Next day or 2 I'll reset everything PROPERLY! Then if I'm really lucky it will just plain fire off then I get to deal with the front seal.

May still proceed with a different IP as soon as the triangular socket set gets here. That way I have a freshly sealed pump instead of an oldie.

Question...the plunger shim disc...what's the benefit or either thinner or thicker? I have a small assortment of both.
 

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wow and you didn't have a meltdown of pistons smacking the valves.

I don't know about the shims, I would suspect that if you look at one of the other pumps the shims will be apparent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Cam & Crank are in sync with one another...THAT much I made sure of by manually cranking the motor over by hand. Could still both be off proper time though & still miss one another since the valves will be opening while the pistons are on the downstroke if they ARE indeed both out. Open late & open early enough you CAN avoid catastrophic impact.

The shims I know have to do w/ quantity fuel delivery since they go between the plunger head & rotor plate. Thicker shims make the plunger depress more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 · (Edited)

1st go @ establishing proper timing...cam plate in place w/ IP pinned & crank at the bright TDC mark. Belts are always a bit of pain getting them on. Get installed & rotate engine w/ ratchet 2 revolutions back to TDC. Cam & IP won't lock. When they do it's only @ 10 ATDC mark. Back it off a ways then reset.

2nd go. Crank @ TDC & trans put in 1st to make accidental cranking of motor less likely. Undo belt 1st at cam...carefully adjusted it 1-2 teeth so lock plate goes in. Crank still @ TDC. Dismount belt from IP turn it until pin seats & fight belt back on while also having to put a little pressure on the pin to get that last 1/4 a tooth. Tighten belt. Crank 2 revs. Crank @ TDC, cam plate goes in & IP pins. Loosen injector lines & reassess pump timing w/ pin in place. It is now @ 1.10+ mm....MIGHT have worked actually but retarded it back to an even 1.0. Tightened lines @ pump. Key on, out of gear, remote start in hand. As soon as start seeing fuel @ #1 tighten. By the time #2 is tight I can hear that telltale sign of it TRYING to catch. 3 & 4 show signs of wet so tighten.

Key still on. Remote start lead touching #4 GP (all 4 are brand new...aside from all the cycling during recent start attempts) while counting to 7-8. Quickly clip back onto starter. Takes a couple seconds, catches, then dies. Give it a few seconds then cycle GPs 1 more time. Couple seconds of cranking & she fires right up. Sounds a little rough at idle...saw some small bubbles coming up through the line but don't have much fuel in the bed tank which I was using the lift pump to speed up the priming process. I also figure perhaps the IP outlet valves might have a stubborn one as it only smooths out @ roughly 1/6th throttle. Gently rev it by hand & hold it for a few seconds then release throttle to see if it will die...stays running. Shut down. Give it a couple minutes then try again with 1 cycle of the GPs. Fires right off!!!

NOW the only serious issue to deal with is the front seal. Will have to use starter power to break THAT loose. Before I do that I will carefully have to apply heat to the crank bolt w/ the crank pulley in place to shield the belt. With lower cover still off I'll use a water soaked rag behind the pulley to protect the belt. Don't do it until bolt is red but enough to perhaps make a soaked rag sizzle. Do that a few times then hopefully be able to get the crank loose then use a puller on the sprocket. Whoever the ox was that tightened that crank bolt (along with about every other important bolt) has been the source of ALOT of grief.
 

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I feel your pain.... be warned, there are 2 bolts that vw used for the crank, a 6 sided and a 12 sided. If the POS (previous Owners Stupidity) used the wrong torque, then I hope you don't experience what I had happen to a new to me car.

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They put 111 ft/lbs of torque on a 12Pt bolt, it drove the bolt to the end of the crank threads and bent it.
Drop tranny, take out crank with the seal carriers, The shop used over 300lbs of torque on their impact to get it out. The bent part destroyed the crank.... Couldn't be Helicoiled..

My issue was the engine wouldn't stay in time and would skip at load, Idled great. Just warning you... Yes I tried heat, and the old use the starter trick... I could get it to move about 1/4 of an inch and no more. and I thought that I have the old crank gear shear... which it did, as the bolt had backed out enough to slip on the crank at speed, and Idle it would lock back in and run great. I am glad that on my Cabby it is a non interference engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited)
Mine has the 6pt. HOPEFULLY it's just a case of the backside of the bolt head & washer stuck due to a very thin layer of rust. While the motor was still on the stand I had tried using a breaker bar w/ over 4 ft of cheat on the bolt while vice grips were clamped down next to the sprocket but that didn't do any good. Grips would still try to slip even though they were as tight as I could get them clamping down using both hands while the rod journals did it's best to snap the 2 wooden 2x2 set across the pan surface to act as a stop. Of course I was probably just partially fighting against myself doing that even though I made sure the grips were avoiding the bolt head. ONE option I do have...in order to prevent catastrophe would be to loosen the cam so all valves are shut & either pull injectors or GPs to vent compression. That way I can give it a crank & if something slips the pistons WILL NOT hit anything.

Probably should have done THAT first but @ the time the front seal gave no indication of leaking & making sure it would run had a higher priority.

I decided WAY too late so I missed the sale...was for a RYOBI ONE+ set of the long necked 3/8 cordless ratchet + a 1/2 drive impact w/ 600ft/lbs breakaway torque for $200. The impact (which might have been able to remove the bolt if I could keep the crank from spinning) alone would've been 160+ by itself & ratchet 150. Was an Xmas sale that ended at the beginning of the year. Now I will have to wait for the Memorial Day sale I think which is then they usually have the "buy a tool over this much..." etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 · (Edited)
FINALLY got it loose but not before using a breaker bar & the A-arm as a stop (giving about 1-2in of free travel for acceleration assistance) then after that seemingly failed some gentle application of heat (seriously...didnt get it orange...only enough to make a rag sizzle while keeping the pulley on). Ran out of O2 so was thinking that given the fight I had before that I'd be pulling the belt to then get the bolt red hot. Got more O2 but didn't get around to hooking up yet. Got the idea that I'd still rather use physical power over the starter so made this...welds not as great as I hoped. Made using one of the spare small crank pulleys I have. Figured this was ALOT easier than getting flat stock & trying to template something.
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Got it attached...had to jack the truck up for it to clear the pad...then carefully lowered it so the bar would stay put. Was just enough room to barely feed a 1/2in breaker bar up between the motor & subframe. With about 18 more in of cheat applied pressure...it gave WAY too easy. Removed breaker & tried ratchet...yup...broke loose. IDK if it was the starter bump which was done before the heat...but I think the heat I did use was enough to break any surface binding. Between that & this bar not allowing ANY(!!!) movment of the crank while using the breaker. Now to see if the sprocket will come off w/o a fight.

EDIT: Sprocket came off easily. Think I know why the 6ft of cheat wasn't working while I had motor on the stand. The 1/4in thick washer behind the bolt has serrations on the side facing the bolt so the 2 engage tightly to one another while the side facing the sprocket is smooth. Wish I had the ABOVE tool at the time instead of using the vice grips which were clamping on the sprocket AND washer so I was fighting the engaged serrations along with what looks like the remnants of a little Loc-Tite on the bolt.

What Loc-Tite should I be using by chance on that bolt?

The front seal is in a recess so simple prying isn't going to work too well so I might just take the front off. Since I have to change the pan anyway since I got ahead of myself modifying the one on the truck for a turbo-retrofit (got new pan already) I'll have full access to the underside. IIRC I was JUST able to fit a socket on the bolts for the main cap on the back of the crank despite the rear seal cover being an obstruction but the FRONT definitely wasn't giving me room @ the time. Can finally go ahead and swap out the the main bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Doing the mains still a no-go. Can't get a socket on the rear cap bolts. If can't do them all then all don't get done.
Front seal installed...the housing got a little burred when trying to pry out the seal but the replacement has rubberized outer which will seal those up & the seal cant go anywhere.
I have the flange-head bolt w/ the serrated backside & similarly serrated face washer that's smooth on the other. 111 or 137 ft/lbs? Will dig out the BENTLEY to check but one source says 137 for the bolt & 111 for hex bolt...assuming meaning an Allen socket head there.

Advisable to use loc-tite?
 

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Honestly no need to replace bearing unless you have low oil pressure on the oil pressure gauge. Ive seen these little motors go to 300,000 or 400,000 without ever having the bearings changed. Biggest issue is the damn oil seals start leaking after the first 100,000 miles
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
The idea was "while I'm in there." When the motor was still on the stand I started pulling the main caps to check the bearings of which the crank facing side of the 4th cap had streaks of yellow where some of the coating had gone but nothing was scoured...just worn. But since I couldn't get the front sprocket off @ the time changed that. Again here w/ the motor in place the main rear cover prevented getting a socket on. SO the brand new mains I've had for 5-1/2 yrs will be saved for a full rebuild of which I have a good (still in the crate) 12mm mechanical-head block that I got from carparts4sale off eBay about 5 yrs ago.

Truck is running...seems to run a tad rough which should clear up I think after the pump has run for awhile or could be a dirty injector.The motor came as a long used long block minus pump. Only big issue is the linkage needs to be tinkered with after all new bushings & thumb ball were installed. Arm that controls the trans shaft moving in & out might have its retainer bolt in too too tight so it's binding. A little too easy getting it into R & 5th while I can manually @ the trans go through all the gears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Got the linkage sorted out. Still quite stiff but I attribute that to the new bushings & the rod that controls moving the trans lever into the gears probably having an oily film on it. As it is I have to push down on the shifter for it the trans to more smoothly go into 5th...the detent on top of the trans might need to be adjusted a little more.
Though I'm certain the rings have probably broken in already from what little running HAS been done but going to keep it going for a week (now that I can go back to driving it...the 84 is nice but I like the lil truck more) on the ND30 then change it out. Can't find any of the blue jug Rotella anywhere...have a 2.5gal unopened jug of the synth mix sitting in back of my 91 Ford w/ the 7.3 NA IDI but will prob just go ahead with some decent off brand.

As soon as I have the opportunity...& after I drain the oil from it...I will remove the 5th gear housing on the jammed transmission to see just WTF happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Finally did a road test. Seems good up to 50mph then can feel that "lope" of losing power. Switched to the bed tank where I can use the electric lift pump. This seemed to help as got it up to ~65 fairly easily but then saw the temp gauge had worked its way up to almost 220. Fortunately I was only doing the local loop anyway so as soon as I made the turn on the the slower side road the temp started to go down where it settled back onto 200 which is normal operating temp...the temp probe is installed where the AC cutoff would normally be so this part sees the hot coolant near where it recirculates at the bypass hose. Only time the OTHER motor ever got that high was when pulling certain long...low grades.

My pump timing is set right @ 1mm. Will try backing it off but also...even though it seems to run smoother now that has been run a bit I still get alot of vibration...which may just be the engine-side insert into the engine mount that stiffens it. Looks like it will be a bit of job getting it tuned in, after I remove alt to get to the bottom bolt on the IP mount flange I'm just going to leave it out...the one on the lower rear will still be there to keep it in place. Besides...one day (about a year ago) when I had the hood up while it was running I saw the IP trying to move around (was still running smooth)...there were no bolts holding the IP in place...just the tension of the injector lines. Found a couple bolts for the top 2 slots called it good. This way any timing adjustment doesn't require pulling the alternator & bracket just to reach the bottom IP bolt.

Since the bed lift pump seemed to help initially I may be looking @ a weak lift pump as well. THIS pump came off the shelf & was installed as-is. Still have the pump that came off the motor formerly that I smacked #2 intake valve with. Can clean that one up for install but also have the other 108 K pump about ready that came off the shelf. Had to use a different pump body when one of the screws holding the back plate over the vane pump refused to come out (philips head tried to strip) & the advance plunger was gummed solidly into place. Just transferred the rest of the guts + distributor head.

Thoughts though on what could be causing the lack of power & temp rise? Timing too much?
 

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So if I recall correctly the short answer is 220 is within normal operating temperature. The old in-dash coolant gauges would purposely be slow to move. Some fans will not kick on until 220 degrees Fahrenheit
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
I have an analogue gauge (not the electrically operated) since all this truck has is an idiot light to start with. Only gauge on the dash is the one for fuel...outside of the obvious speedo. Normal running temp w/ previous motor sat right @ 200 & would only pull 220 on a certain stretch of road when I have errands that take me up that way which require holding the throttle to the floor to maintain speed or at least keep it near 55 even though it's posted 65...it's a long but small grade but enough to make the engine work. When that stretch is done it's back to 200.

The temp here on the test drive was on the open flat locally. Never should've gotten that warm. I suspect it's possible the T-stat might be slow...one in THIS motor is the one that came w/i it when I picked it up. Can always swap it for the known good one from the other motor. Just putting along on the open flat here I don't need it hovering 220 which only means when the summer gets here again w/ the 115+ I definitely don't need it deciding that 230 is the norm.
 
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