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81 Truck - Trans stuck in 5th - HELP!

6K views 70 replies 6 participants last post by  RuralTowner 
#1 · (Edited)
81 truck w/ early 1.6D NA + 5sp
Like the title says. My transmission is jammed into 5th & doesn't seem to want to come out of it.

My linkage has a good amount of slop & needs to be changed but other than Reverse occasionally difficult to get into (can take a few attempts) & 2nd on occasion doesn't always stick from lack of proper throw, it's worked.
Now a few months back...as noisy as these things can be, I was in 4th & at about 50mph I went to put it in 5th and missed it. Instead dropping into 3rd. It decelerated hard while revs aimed somewhere near the red no doubt & it also made the shifter move a bit more than it should. It took a bunch of fidgeting but I got it free. Now today was supposed to be the last day of driving it for awhile to deal with some other goings-on & was going to also finally take care of the linkage.
Was a mile from work & went to make the turn off the highway...shifter locked up & wouldn't budge. After work I checked the linkage for binding (the thumb piece with the ball has play & the ball is flat on 2 sides) & found none. Disconnected the rod from the trans lever to try operating manually. Transmission is jammed solid. FORTUNATELY I could take off in 5th but it required more half clutching than I'd like & the couple stop lights despite taking back streets to avoid the rest required riding the clutch. All parked on the work slab as originally planned but not with the extra work.

Thoughts?
I forget what trans-code it is exactly but it's one of the desirable ones & hopefully there are no bent shift forks. Best case maybe the speedo gear I lost down inside...& could only recover half of...floated into the wrong place?

Current motor is using coolant & has started to pressurize the coolant tank but doesn't overheat. I have a good late-1.6D mated to another 5sp in a project truck that could go in it's place. It needs to come out anyway so a TD can be dropped in the project.
 
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#29 · (Edited)
Instead of effing with removing the pump from an otherwise (almost) good running motor (said one pulled w/ jammed trans) or even pulling the one that came attached to a trans bell test stand...I opted to dig into the parts cabinet. I still have only a vague idea of everything I have. A half dozen serviceable heads...1 of which is practically new though where it was previously being stored (wrapped up in a rag) the head face will need a cleaning...2-3 more whose cams have gone patina so would need to be polished...another bare head that had a pre-chamber fall out while I was originally loading it up...at least 2 more good used AFAIK that were stored in plastic (got them like that). On top of that 8 or 9 complete IPs in unknown condition not counting the 2-3 others in pieces.
Using my 84's IP as a reference trying to find one w/ a matching pt# which the last 3 are "109" I opted for a 108 F implying it's a later series pump (close to the 84s) I assume from the parts pile. It had caps on the IP line connections so those at least will be dust free. Have a 108 K but the ends of that one were uncovered. The F was missing the banjo bolts for IN//OUT so I grabbed some of those off the others. Even found more than a few UN-OPENED IP seal kits...not counting what must be 2-3 strewn loose in a box that had IP pieces! On top of which...I KNEW I had bought one but then lost track of where I put it...found the timing set. Bit of a cheap EWK set but it has the critical dial gauge bit.

SO going to clean up the 108 F...mount it in place of the current & use the grunge outline to get an approx set point to match up. Then use the BENTLEY as needed to try getting the 1 MM setting for the pump if I can get it started.
 
#30 ·
FINALLY! Some good progress & 1 step closer to being a "diesel mechanic".

Before pulling the old pump I used the dial gauge to get a judge of pump alignment but also a reading. Replaced pump & lined up the grunge lines to start with. Dial gauge readings seemed way off. Now bear with me...I was reading the "10" as 1mm for some reason. Ended up with the raised dimple that would usually point at the indentation on the bracket (pump completely vertical) instead pointing out & away from the motor which was different than the previous one & any other motors I have intact. Go to bleed things...crank & crank & crank. Not so much as a puff of smoke coming out. Come back & look again at a page I found..which by the way ends up becoming VERY HELPFUL!!! HOW-TO: Set The Injection Pump Timing - VinceWaldon.com

My screw up was I wasn't giving the dial gauge enough pre-load but most importantly not reading it right since the gauge I have is in INCHES. The gauge was still set for what I was doing previous...WAY too retarded...probably something near "90" almost 3mm. 1mm being 1 tick short of "40". Did a proper pre-load. Re-set everything...adjusted pump to "39" which is right about 1mm. Dimple on pump points to where the original did. Double checked by backing off from TDC then back. Reading stayed.

Button pump back up...after cranking & realizing I had the wrong fuel line connected to the IP...took a few MORE cranks but eventually got it to start off. Loud as hell since I omitted the exhaust pipe this go around JUST in case I got to do the routine AGAIN on the motor. Only ran it for a couple seconds...just long enough to know it's working. When I can next get to it the exhaust goes back on along with the CV axles (after filling the cups with grease) & check the trans oil lvl. Then it's putting the engine bay back together the rest of the way so I can actually start it proper to bring it to temp for the next step on the HBs. If this IP proves to be an issue all...by then hopefully I'll have the K pump ready...it will be a simple swap job now that I know what to do. After making sure to READ & not simply have read the steps on that site...not nearly as difficult as it looks @ first glance.
 
#31 ·
Nice, reminds me of learning the mantra RTFM squared.
 
#32 ·
Must be the neighbor of SUAEI fine print for military personnel when they sign up & gripe about eating the same thing all the time.
 
#33 ·
Went to install the exhaust then the CVs but ran into an issue. It's the bowl-type connection. Got the passenger clip on but the driver's wouldn't go. Took me a minute to realize the bowl was below Cyl #3 instead of between 2 & 3. Motor being a hydraulic head has it being out of a Mk2 which now is clear has a slightly different setup. The heat shield around the down pipe was hitting the bracket for the linkage. It would still work if the shield (which protects the passenger inboard CV boot) was removed but opted to take off the manifold. I have extra bowl-type center drops but they won't quite mount on w/ the intake in place. The ears for the top bolts on the ends rub. So now the intake will have to come off...was hoping to not have to do that.

Also encountered an issue that would affect the future retrofit turbo install. Turbo is centered but down pipe would still be below #3. Turbo I have is (from the description) is from a Mk2 but has the same KKK 03 version found on an AAZ. Seller got it from was going to turbo his NA as well but went a different route & kept it NA. Found (from a UK source) the output flange for use in making custom exhaust...but also found the complete downpipe from a source up in Canada for $65 + 25 so $90CA or ~75 USD. Has the right flange but just found out the orientation is off. When it mounts up the pipe would all be pointed @ the motor. This isn't a HUGE deal. Sure I'm out some $ but it gives me an on-hand reference. The mount plate can be homemade from 1/4" plate & instead of the 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 round outlet I have a mind if possible to make the entire plate feed into the inevitable downpipe to reduce restriction. When this stage comes I knew going in it will take some fiddling...not alot of room between the bottom of the fire wall & CV axle to try getting all it to fit. Still doable...could even consider making a custom adapter perhaps to work on the the older style 6-bolt rectangle exhaust that the truck originally came with. That would keep things centered & simplify some of the pipe routing. That's for later though.
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#34 ·
Finally have it running...ish. Had to hold the throttle to keep it running even long enough for it to warm sufficiently (only took a couple minutes) to give the 1/4 turn. After 3 weeks of driving (when it's back on the road) will be about 1000-1200 miles so by then can do the final 1/4. Part of my fuel plumbing is clear (yellowed with age) & I can see I'm getting air bubbles from the upstream side which accounts for some of the rough running. Few line connections to play with still.

OTHERWISE only other major thing is sorting out my dip stick which the existing one is not OEM. Can still make use of the tube. Got some really thin copper material used as shim material that I can use to wrap the tube then carefully wedge the tube in as far as practical then either epoxy or JB weld it into place after being sure the block is clean. Just have to get the stick tube to the right amount to poke out the block before I give it a replacement stick from a bum block.

Going to reseal the K pump I have for it then install at some point. Can you use engine assembly lube in an injector pump?
Otherwise I'll just prime it full of ATF.
 
#36 ·
Have seen them but I have no shortage of injector lines. Got between 2 to 4 loose sets.

Think I got rid of the inbound line getting air. Still runs rough. Leaves me with air contamination due to return lines between injectors not going into place right. Am using fuel line like that found on weed eaters...a bear to get to fit over the nipples...needs to be at least 1 size bigger. Have to use needle nose to get them on but that risks ripping them. Do go on better in warmer weather. Trying to carefully heat the ends with a lighter makes them TOO soft. Smallest regular fuel line I can get locally is a tad too thick. Line nut would have to be on first & even then wedging them on would be a pain.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Before I dig into tearing a pump down for re-seal...I dug into the box that had a couple of them in pieces. Each in a different state where 1 was an empty shell while another still had the shaft in place & the "cup" that the cam plate rides on. Pump internals are nowhere near as complicated as I thought they may be though the layout is FAR different than the Stanadyne DBs. First of all the portion with the centrifugal weights is above the main shaft & not on it. As for the other pumps they all came from a place where the pair of guys tore down diesels then fixed up cars to then flip. The pumps can easily be good runners but the motors were shot. However they have been sitting awhile...dry...so any seals can easily go to crap. That may be what is causing my current issues. Also gleaned a good idea of how the outlet valves work so I'll be going back to the ORIGINAL pump that gave me grief & see if simple fouling is the problem.

Other than taking one apart & meticulously laying bits out while taking careful note of how many turns a threaded-in part may be...where might I find a good tear down guide useful for resealing the internals?. Not had much luck finding any yet.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Forgot I even had that one bookmarked.
About 1/3 to 1/2 of the process I was able to glean by toying with the loose bits but w/o a disassembly myself there was no reference for the governor spring assy or a number of the small retainer pins & screws. Those pumps are missing some small bits so can only ever get used as references anyway.

At bare minimum I can just pop the top of a pump to check for gunk or corrosion. The outlet valves had an additional part I had missed. For the rest...turn counting & etch markings (where allowed) to get a pump back together the way it was will certainly be in order. I'd be in these mostly for cleaning then reseal anyhow.
The post where it says the Bosch is crowded (very true) but a rotary is worse...however a Stanadyne DB rotary has significantly fewer parts & is simpler.
 
#40 · (Edited)
The VWDiesel thread the link leads to is great. But think I just found an additional source that covers reassembly just as well then some since the voice over includes a good deal of descriptive info. It's also a bit more relevant to what most DIY are likely to be doing. Here he's making 2 out of 1. Different pump but the bulk of components are identical. Also has 1 for the tear down of one...which would go about as well for any other 1st timer as was for him @ the time.
 
#41 ·
Side note. LEARN TO READ YOUR GAUGE PROPER! This guy is using one identical to mine. Blasted fine print. For some reason I was misinterpreting mine as SAE not Metric. 39 marks is not ~1mm. So my existing setup should be okay. Just need to redo the pump timing (again). Probably why it "smooths" out if given extra throttle as it advances injection (but still nowhere near where it should be).

 
#42 ·
Pump in the truck is driving me nuts. Reset to 1mm...best I can get it to do is run for a brief moment then die. If I was a hardcore masochist I'd have pulled very single hair out of my head already. At this rate with all the fuel being dumped in the cylinders to get it to try and run probably won't be doing the new rings any good.
 
#43 ·
Finding more material on these pumps however. More I look at them the more I think I'm looking at any of the 5 total plungers not cooperating.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Been doing it even w/ the lift pump for the bed tank. I let the lift pump run & it will eventually fill the IP enough for fuel to begin coming through the return. At this stage I think it might be the solenoid not being consistent even though it clicks when power is applied. Thought about pulling the thing & removing the plunger then trying it...then realized if I did that the only way to shut down would be to starve it for air or stall it out w/ clutch. SOMEWHERE I have a brand new solenoid...I think...otherwise it's trying one of the other used I have.
 
#47 ·
Haven't been able to spend much time on the thing but I think I found my problem. There are 2 painted marks on the flywheel...I was using the older of the 2 (not 1 I made) instead of the brighter paint mark. Our flywheels get patina so its hard to make out marks hence using paint. Got to wondering that IT SHOULD be firing...everything is getting set where it should be. A problem I was running into was when lining up the marks the IP still could not be pinned...it would have to be turned further. WELL finally used the camera probe I originally got to help find a speedo gear I dropped down a trans. Set it back up to point at the brighter paint mark...to the left of the screen I see a B...to the right I see an A...in the middle a 0 though the pain fills it in to look more like a C. Just prior to this I went ahead and counted all the visible marks of which there is 16. 10 to the left of bright white & 5 to the right.

The prognosis? I'VE BEEN SETTING THE IP W/ THE FLYWHEEL @ 10 ATDC! With the CORRECT mark lined up the pump is 3-4 teeth off...fuel is being injected way too late. Had forgotten that the bright mark was one I PUT(!) on it in the 1st place...clutch assy came off the motor that was mated to the stuck trans since it was low miles. Next day or 2 I'll reset everything PROPERLY! Then if I'm really lucky it will just plain fire off then I get to deal with the front seal.

May still proceed with a different IP as soon as the triangular socket set gets here. That way I have a freshly sealed pump instead of an oldie.

Question...the plunger shim disc...what's the benefit or either thinner or thicker? I have a small assortment of both.
 
#48 ·
wow and you didn't have a meltdown of pistons smacking the valves.

I don't know about the shims, I would suspect that if you look at one of the other pumps the shims will be apparent.
 
#49 ·
Cam & Crank are in sync with one another...THAT much I made sure of by manually cranking the motor over by hand. Could still both be off proper time though & still miss one another since the valves will be opening while the pistons are on the downstroke if they ARE indeed both out. Open late & open early enough you CAN avoid catastrophic impact.

The shims I know have to do w/ quantity fuel delivery since they go between the plunger head & rotor plate. Thicker shims make the plunger depress more.
 
#50 · (Edited)

1st go @ establishing proper timing...cam plate in place w/ IP pinned & crank at the bright TDC mark. Belts are always a bit of pain getting them on. Get installed & rotate engine w/ ratchet 2 revolutions back to TDC. Cam & IP won't lock. When they do it's only @ 10 ATDC mark. Back it off a ways then reset.

2nd go. Crank @ TDC & trans put in 1st to make accidental cranking of motor less likely. Undo belt 1st at cam...carefully adjusted it 1-2 teeth so lock plate goes in. Crank still @ TDC. Dismount belt from IP turn it until pin seats & fight belt back on while also having to put a little pressure on the pin to get that last 1/4 a tooth. Tighten belt. Crank 2 revs. Crank @ TDC, cam plate goes in & IP pins. Loosen injector lines & reassess pump timing w/ pin in place. It is now @ 1.10+ mm....MIGHT have worked actually but retarded it back to an even 1.0. Tightened lines @ pump. Key on, out of gear, remote start in hand. As soon as start seeing fuel @ #1 tighten. By the time #2 is tight I can hear that telltale sign of it TRYING to catch. 3 & 4 show signs of wet so tighten.

Key still on. Remote start lead touching #4 GP (all 4 are brand new...aside from all the cycling during recent start attempts) while counting to 7-8. Quickly clip back onto starter. Takes a couple seconds, catches, then dies. Give it a few seconds then cycle GPs 1 more time. Couple seconds of cranking & she fires right up. Sounds a little rough at idle...saw some small bubbles coming up through the line but don't have much fuel in the bed tank which I was using the lift pump to speed up the priming process. I also figure perhaps the IP outlet valves might have a stubborn one as it only smooths out @ roughly 1/6th throttle. Gently rev it by hand & hold it for a few seconds then release throttle to see if it will die...stays running. Shut down. Give it a couple minutes then try again with 1 cycle of the GPs. Fires right off!!!

NOW the only serious issue to deal with is the front seal. Will have to use starter power to break THAT loose. Before I do that I will carefully have to apply heat to the crank bolt w/ the crank pulley in place to shield the belt. With lower cover still off I'll use a water soaked rag behind the pulley to protect the belt. Don't do it until bolt is red but enough to perhaps make a soaked rag sizzle. Do that a few times then hopefully be able to get the crank loose then use a puller on the sprocket. Whoever the ox was that tightened that crank bolt (along with about every other important bolt) has been the source of ALOT of grief.
 
#51 ·
I feel your pain.... be warned, there are 2 bolts that vw used for the crank, a 6 sided and a 12 sided. If the POS (previous Owners Stupidity) used the wrong torque, then I hope you don't experience what I had happen to a new to me car.

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They put 111 ft/lbs of torque on a 12Pt bolt, it drove the bolt to the end of the crank threads and bent it.
Drop tranny, take out crank with the seal carriers, The shop used over 300lbs of torque on their impact to get it out. The bent part destroyed the crank.... Couldn't be Helicoiled..

My issue was the engine wouldn't stay in time and would skip at load, Idled great. Just warning you... Yes I tried heat, and the old use the starter trick... I could get it to move about 1/4 of an inch and no more. and I thought that I have the old crank gear shear... which it did, as the bolt had backed out enough to slip on the crank at speed, and Idle it would lock back in and run great. I am glad that on my Cabby it is a non interference engine.
 
#52 · (Edited)
Mine has the 6pt. HOPEFULLY it's just a case of the backside of the bolt head & washer stuck due to a very thin layer of rust. While the motor was still on the stand I had tried using a breaker bar w/ over 4 ft of cheat on the bolt while vice grips were clamped down next to the sprocket but that didn't do any good. Grips would still try to slip even though they were as tight as I could get them clamping down using both hands while the rod journals did it's best to snap the 2 wooden 2x2 set across the pan surface to act as a stop. Of course I was probably just partially fighting against myself doing that even though I made sure the grips were avoiding the bolt head. ONE option I do have...in order to prevent catastrophe would be to loosen the cam so all valves are shut & either pull injectors or GPs to vent compression. That way I can give it a crank & if something slips the pistons WILL NOT hit anything.

Probably should have done THAT first but @ the time the front seal gave no indication of leaking & making sure it would run had a higher priority.

I decided WAY too late so I missed the sale...was for a RYOBI ONE+ set of the long necked 3/8 cordless ratchet + a 1/2 drive impact w/ 600ft/lbs breakaway torque for $200. The impact (which might have been able to remove the bolt if I could keep the crank from spinning) alone would've been 160+ by itself & ratchet 150. Was an Xmas sale that ended at the beginning of the year. Now I will have to wait for the Memorial Day sale I think which is then they usually have the "buy a tool over this much..." etc.
 
#53 · (Edited)
FINALLY got it loose but not before using a breaker bar & the A-arm as a stop (giving about 1-2in of free travel for acceleration assistance) then after that seemingly failed some gentle application of heat (seriously...didnt get it orange...only enough to make a rag sizzle while keeping the pulley on). Ran out of O2 so was thinking that given the fight I had before that I'd be pulling the belt to then get the bolt red hot. Got more O2 but didn't get around to hooking up yet. Got the idea that I'd still rather use physical power over the starter so made this...welds not as great as I hoped. Made using one of the spare small crank pulleys I have. Figured this was ALOT easier than getting flat stock & trying to template something.
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Got it attached...had to jack the truck up for it to clear the pad...then carefully lowered it so the bar would stay put. Was just enough room to barely feed a 1/2in breaker bar up between the motor & subframe. With about 18 more in of cheat applied pressure...it gave WAY too easy. Removed breaker & tried ratchet...yup...broke loose. IDK if it was the starter bump which was done before the heat...but I think the heat I did use was enough to break any surface binding. Between that & this bar not allowing ANY(!!!) movment of the crank while using the breaker. Now to see if the sprocket will come off w/o a fight.

EDIT: Sprocket came off easily. Think I know why the 6ft of cheat wasn't working while I had motor on the stand. The 1/4in thick washer behind the bolt has serrations on the side facing the bolt so the 2 engage tightly to one another while the side facing the sprocket is smooth. Wish I had the ABOVE tool at the time instead of using the vice grips which were clamping on the sprocket AND washer so I was fighting the engaged serrations along with what looks like the remnants of a little Loc-Tite on the bolt.

What Loc-Tite should I be using by chance on that bolt?

The front seal is in a recess so simple prying isn't going to work too well so I might just take the front off. Since I have to change the pan anyway since I got ahead of myself modifying the one on the truck for a turbo-retrofit (got new pan already) I'll have full access to the underside. IIRC I was JUST able to fit a socket on the bolts for the main cap on the back of the crank despite the rear seal cover being an obstruction but the FRONT definitely wasn't giving me room @ the time. Can finally go ahead and swap out the the main bearings.
 
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